Is Sugar Addiction a Thing? with Kirsten Ackerman
Show Notes:
Feeling out of control around sugary foods? This is the episode for you!
In this episode, we are joined by Kirsten Ackerman RD (@theintuitive_rd) who is setting the record straight about carbohydrates, sugar and whether they are truly addictive or not.
We’ll also explore why sugar is viewed as a big, scary monster that’s compared to the likes of poison and heroin. Kirsten shares some insight into why sugar is so feared as well as the science about how sugar is metabolized and utilized by the body.
She explains why it can FEEL like we’re addicted to sugar, and why abstaining creates even more cravings and chaos.
Finally, Kirsten shares tips for how we can feel better in our body, AND feel peaceful and calm around sugary foods, without relying on willpower.
What you’ll learn by listening:
- How sugar and carbohydrates are processed by the body
- Why we feel so out of control around sugar
- The science behind sugar addiction and why it feels addictive
- How to feel more calm and peaceful around sweet foods
- How we can feel good in our body without having to restrict or use willpower
About our Guest:
Kirsten Ackerman is an Anti-Diet Registered Dietitian and Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor. She is the Host of Intuitive Bites Podcast and runs her own virtual private practice helping women heal their relationships to food and body.
Mentioned in the show:
Kirsten’s Instagram: @theintuitive_rd
Intuitive Bites Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/intuitive-bites-podcast/id1383888050
Free Training: https://www.theintuitiverd.com/webinar-registration
About the Host
Kim Hagle (she/her) is Certified Personal Trainer, Registered Holistic Nutritionist, Body Image Coach and founder of Radiant Vitality Wellness. Through her signature coaching program, “Right Body for Me”, she helps women heal their relationship with food and exercise while disconnecting their worth from their weight, so they can feel healthy, happy and confident in the body they have.
Want to feel good in your body without focusing on weight.
Download “5 Steps to Feeling Healthy, Happy and Confident (without obsessing over the scale)” – our FREE guide that will help get started with the non-diet approach. Inside you’ll learn 5 simple shifts to feeling better in your NOW body! www.radiantvitality.ca/freeguide
Ready to take the next step?
Visit our website to learn more about our coaching programs www.radiantvitality.ca/programs
For health professionals looking to adopt the non-diet approach in your business, visit Kim’s mentor, Stephanie Dodier’s site for free resources to get started. https://www.stephaniedodier.com
Let’s stay in touch!
Kim is on Instagram and Facebook @radiantvitalitywellness.
Disclaimer.
The information contained in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice. Always consult a health care professional about your unique needs.
Full Transcript
[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to the joyful movement show. I’m your host, Kim Hagle personal trainer, registered holistic nutritionist and body image coach. This is episode 77 and on today’s show, we’re talking about about a really hot topic. It’s all about carbs and sugar.
[00:00:16] We’ve been talking in the last couple of episodes about fueling your body, both in everyday life and and for our workouts using gentle nutrition. And so I felt like this topic was really relevant because there can be a lot of fear, and misconceptions, misunderstandings around carbs and especially sugar.
[00:00:36] So I inviteda guest expert in to talk about this with us. Kirsten Ackerman is an anti diet, registered dietician and a certified intuitive eating counselor. She’s the host of the intuitive bites podcast. And runs her own virtual practice, helping women heal their relationship to food and body.
[00:00:55] So this is a really jam packed interview, full of great stuff. Inside, we’re going to explore exactly why sugar is viewed as this big, scary monster, that’s compared to the likes of poison and even heroin.
[00:01:12] And Kirsten shares some really great insight into why sugar is so feared as well as the science about how sugar is actually metabolized and utilized in our body. And she explains why it can feel like we’re addicted to sugar and why actually abstaining creates even more cravings and chaos.
[00:01:32] And finally Kirsten shares some tips for how we can feel better in our body and feel peaceful and calm around sugary foods without relying on willpower and without all the restriction and bingeing.
[00:01:44] So all of Kirsten’s info is linked up in the show notes. She’s she’s got a free food peace training for you that you can download from her website. And you can also follow her podcast which is intuitive bites so i hope you enjoy And here’s Kirsten Yeah.
[00:02:01] Kim: Hey, Kirsten. Welcome to the joyful movement show. I’m so excited to have you here today.
[00:02:06] Kirsten: Hi Kim I’m very happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:09] Kim: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Well, I am really, really looking forward to digging into this topic today, all about carbs and sugar. But before we do that, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do?
[00:02:23] Kirsten: Yes. So I am a registered dietician and a certified intuitive eating counselor. I’ve been doing intuitive eating work for the past five years or so. Um, and have been a dietician, gosh, I think for like seven ish years. So it wasn’t too long into working in the field that I learned about intuitive eating and health at every size and kind of decided this was my calling in the field.
[00:02:48] Um, and yeah, I kind of found my path to doing this work through my own disordered eating struggles. Certainly we’re going to get into the topic of sugar and carbs today, but I had, you know, a lot of my own fears and, uh, about that and the thoughts about like how I can’t control myself around this. And, you know, that was just kind of one aspect of my journey.
[00:03:07] But, um, yeah. So when I kind of found this work, I was like, oh my gosh, this is personally so healing and freeing and amazing and professionally like a totally like shifted my gears. So I’m just really happy to be doing this work now.
[00:03:23] Kim: It’s so interesting. I think many of us in the health and wellness field enter into our profession because of our disordered habits, right. Thinking that if we can just get enough education and really learn and figure this out, that maybe, you know, we’ll finally get it right. And know what we’re doing.
[00:03:40] Kirsten: Totally. And it becomes a passion. I mean, I, I, I think about with my story, like, you know, it really, I started struggling in, you know, kind of high school.
[00:03:48] I mean, you could say earlier even, but like late high school. And when it came time for me to decide what I was going to do in college, like I, all I knew was that I was obsessed quote-unquote with food. Like, I didn’t know it like logically, but like food was my hobby, like controlling food and controlling my body were my hobby.
[00:04:07] So it was just like an obvious thing. I was like, oh, this is my calling. Obviously I saw it in a positive light, kind of at that time. But in retrospect, I’m like, oh, that makes sense. I went down this path because I didn’t have space for other interests and hobbies that, you know, my peers were had time for.
[00:04:25] Kim: It’s so true. So true. I mean, my story is similar to how I ended up in personal training. Right. So, yeah, it’s just, I always love to hear these stories and know that we’re not alone.
[00:04:37] Kirsten: Yes, it is good to hear. It’s comforting.
[00:04:40] Kim: Okay. So. The big reason I invited you on today is that in my work as a personal trainer, you know, people are always asking questions about food and that too.
[00:04:51] And knowing that I coach on intuitive eating. Women have lots of questions, but there’s like a real sticking point. People have a lot of beliefs around carbohydrates and sugar, especially they’re seen as like this big, hairy, scary monster, and it’s labeled unhealthy and it’s going to cause you to gain weight and it’s like addictive.
[00:05:16] It may as well be crack cocaine. So. Can we start there? Can we start about talking where this fear of carbs and particularly sugar comes from?
[00:05:26] Kirsten: Yes. I mean, it’s interesting. Cause I was, I was looking over your questions ahead of time. I was thinking about how, you know, I mean, I wasn’t necessarily present in, in, you know, participating in diet culture at this time, but a couple decades back, a few decades back the conversation would have been all about fat, right?
[00:05:44] Yeah, I think, I think it’s interesting to point out that these are kind of trends and like it’s not like sugar has always been this big, scary, terrible monster at one time it was fat, and in the future, maybe we’ll go back. Who knows, who knows what will happen, but like, there’s something to be said for the fact that these fads happen in marketing.
[00:06:01] And I mean, certainly diet culture, just being the way it is. Like. Diet culture thrives on having you believe that you’re out of control with whatever, and you need a plan to save you from feeling out of control of those foods. I think sugar in particular is an interesting one because the reason that a lot of folks feel so out of control with it, I know we’ll, we’ll continue to talk about this today, but is because we’re living in a state of deprivation mentally and physically with food.
[00:06:33] And when our bodies feel mentally and especially physically, but both mentally and physically deprived of food, the thing that will feel the safest is quick energy. Quick, easily digestible energy and the quickest, easiest, digestible energy is simple carbohydrates. So that would be your very sugary type things.
[00:06:56] So I think that that’s why it’s become this very big thing. Cause it’s. People are like, oh my gosh, I’m feeling know chaotic around sugar. And I really do eat it in a way that doesn’t feel good and that can’t be good for me. And all these things that, you know, we’ll get further into. And it’s really as a symptom of being deprived mentally and physically from
[00:07:16] Kim: food .
[00:07:17] It’s interesting an example popped into my head of that. About how, when we feel deprived like that the safest thing feels like the easiest digestive form of carbohydrates. I think I mentioned it actually on a recent podcast. um, I witnessed that in our household a little while ago. My daughter plays soccer and she had come home from a pretty intense soccer practice one day. And like, I could see she was like, shaking. Like you could tell. She was just so depleted. Right. She had worked so hard. And she was looking in the fridge for something, and there was all kinds of stuff in there that she could have chose. Right. But there was also a bag of sour patch kids on the counter. And she closed the fridge and she grabbed those sour patch kids and she shoved a bunch in her mouth. And then I just saw her body relax. Wow. It was just really illustrated, like how she sought out what she needed in that moment.
[00:08:07] Kirsten: Exactly. And I love that so much and I love this kind of reframe around this conversation because I think there can be a lot of fear around, oh my gosh, I’m reaching for the really, you know, sugary things all the time.
[00:08:18] And I think looking at it as your body needs that for some reason, right? Like your body it’s information, your body is really, really in need of that. Are there things we can do if we feel like, you know, seven times a day, we’re turning to these really high, you know, sweet things or whatever, in a way that’s not feeling good for us?
[00:08:36] Yes. There are things that we could do to maybe better meet our needs. But I think also having that peacefulness around, okay, my body is working for me and there’s a reason that that is what it needs in this moment. I don’t need to distract it. I don’t need to pick a quote unquote, healthier snack or find, uh, something else that will like try to satisfy that need. Like, that is what your body needs in that moment.
[00:08:56] So what can we do to better support your body in the future? And also just make peace with that sometimes the sour patch kids are going to be exactly what your body needs to recover from that intense workout. And that’s awesome.
[00:09:09] Kim: Yeah, but let’s unpack that a little bit. ’cause when you kept saying that, how that might be, what your body needs in that moment and like give yourself permission to do that.
[00:09:17] Like, I think a lot of us wouldn’t give ourselves permission to do that because we’re taught that sugar is essentially poison. Like how could you possibly ever actually need that in your body when it is so bad for you? Sugar is basically blamed to be the source of everything wrong with everybody, right?
[00:09:34] Like from the common cold and inflammation to cancer, to diabetes and high blood pressure and all of it- sugars, the thing that’s like blamed for it all. Yeah.
[00:09:43] Kirsten: It’s kind of wild. I mean, it’s, it’s the fear-mongering around around sugar and I think the important thing for me in terms of considering it, I mean, I think there’s so many different avenues we could talk, talk about here, but the important thing for me to consider is like, what is, what is the impact of your relationship with sugar? Right?
[00:10:01] So when somebody says a blanket statement, Sugar’s bad. Sugar is poison. I should avoid sugar. If I never have sugar, like that’s going to be the best possible thing. It’s like, what is the impact of that belief? For a lot of the clients I work with and certainly for myself in the past, the impact of that belief was periods of time of not eating sugar, but thinking a lot about sugar and periods of time, uh, bingeing on sugary things.
[00:10:24] Um, so what would be the impact of a more peaceful, neutral relationship with sugar? Well, I’m gonna eat it in a way that serves me and feels good. And it’s going to be naturally, I hate to say the word balanced, but it’s going to naturally end up being that without you having to control and manipulate and like, cause it to be balanced.
[00:10:44] If you know what I mean, like intentionally making it balanced.
[00:10:47] Kim: Yeah. A hundred percent. And then can you elaborate a little, like, what does the science actually say about all this is sugar really that bad for us? Or is this just been blown way out of proportion?
[00:10:58] Kirsten: Yeah, it definitely has been blown way out of proportion.
[00:11:01] I, I know a lot of intuitive eating dieticians, like kind of in the diabetes field talk a lot about how sugar, like the perception is right, like sugar and eating sugar causes diabetes, but that’s not actually the case. Right. Let’s just use that small example of the ways that this fear mongering has gotten completely out of proportion, completely out of control.
[00:11:23] It’s really that, you know, there’s something going on in the background that’s causing maybe a, and like when you’re, when diabetes is developing, you’re going to be drawn towards those really quick high energy, high, sugary type things. So then it becomes, we think, oh, it’s eating all of those sugary sweet things that’s causing the diabetes, but really it’s the other way around.
[00:11:43] It’s the diabetes that’s causing chaotic behavior around these things. And then the mindset around, oh my gosh, I shouldn’t be eating these things. I should be cutting them out. I should be avoiding them because that’s literally what folks with diabetes, you know, sometimes the recommendation is causing even more chaos around the food than even what the disease state is pushing.
[00:12:04] So it becomes this like perfect storm, um, for folks to really believe, oh my gosh, sugar is this terrible thing that I need to control myself around.
[00:12:13] Kim: Yeah. Yeah. So can you expand a little bit about the process our body goes through to break down sugar, like give our folks some reassurance that our body can make good use of it.
[00:12:25] Kirsten: Yes. I mean, so I mean, the things that come to mind for me are, you know, there’s. If there are complex carbs, there are simple carbs, you know, the more complex carbs, essentially, what that means is that it, your body has to, you know, take some more time to break it down versus something like sour patch kids, which is going to be able to again, give your body that quick energy, because it’s already, like, you can think of it as already partially kind of like digested, which is great.
[00:12:49] It gives your body that quick energy. Um, insulin, you know, when we talk about diabetes, but I mean, everyone, you know, insulin in our bodies and that’s what helps our body bring sugar into the cells and bring our blood sugar levels back to normal. In folks with diabetes, they have issues with their insulin, but our bodies meant to be able to, you know, digest and process sugar and do what it w you know, do with it, what it needs to.
[00:13:20] Kim: So essentially when we eat those carbs, whether they’re complex or simple, insulin gets produced in the right proportion, we make use of that sugar. We break it down and we go about our merry way.
[00:13:32] Kirsten: Exactly. Yes. Your body knows what to do.
[00:13:36] Kim: Awesome. Great. And then, is there any difference between, um, the natural sugars like maple syrup and honey or agave and table sugar? I know that everybody likes to say, well, just use the natural kinds and that’s better for you.
[00:13:49] Kirsten: Your body doesn’t know that it’s agave.
[00:13:52] Your body just knows that it’s the same molecules. Like it’s sugar is sugar is sugar. And like that’s totally fine. I was thinking about this too, as I saw your question there, because I was like, this is interesting because, you know, maybe there are less people out there finding themselves bingeing on agave versus other things, whatever.
[00:14:10] And I, I really feel like that comes down to the mindset around it, you know, in the relationship with it. Um, so I think that’s the difference, but in terms of how your body’s recognizing it, it’s all the same.
[00:14:22] Kim: So it’s more of the forbidden fruit mentality that we have about white table sugar.
[00:14:28] Kirsten: Exactly. The forbidden fruit and you know, the, this mindset that it’s poisonous and bad and toxic and I should avoid it. You know, that whole, whole thing for sure. That’s going to drive you to it more chaotically.
[00:14:38] Kim: Right. Which brings me back to one of the first things that you said, which is that, that is the deprivation or the thoughts that it’s bad and it’s off limits. And that we’ve tried to restrict ourselves from it that creates the craving we have for it, and the feeling of being out of control.
[00:14:54] Kirsten: Absolutely. I mean, it really does come back to that, that deprivation mindset and that whole cycle. And it’s so pervasive because you see the cycle and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m acting chaotic around these, this chocolate or whatever this cake. And it must be because I am inherently chaotic around chocolate or cake.
[00:15:13] But in reality, when we take the deprivation and restriction out that behavior, You know, changes. And I think it’s important to, to know, I don’t know if I made this clear before that, like again, it can be a mentality. I have a client I’m working with right now who, you know, has this fear around, you know, chocolate, whatever.
[00:15:32] And she’s like, no, look, I’ve been giving myself full permission. I eat it all the time. I eat it when I wake up in the morning, I eat it throughout the day. I’m eating it way too much, you know, this kind of perception. But she has this mindset of, I shouldn’t be doing this. I can’t believe I’m doing this. I’m so chaotic. This chocolate what’s wrong with me. Like, and that mindset is deprivation and restriction.
[00:15:53] Kim: Yes. Even though she’s eating it, she’s judging herself and calling herself bad and like placing those mental limits on herself.
[00:16:01] Kirsten: Exactly. And you’re raw, you know, you’re depriving yourself of the experience
[00:16:06] Kim: of pleasure, right?
[00:16:07] Kirsten: Yes.
[00:16:09] Kim: Oh, this is so interesting. Okay. So let’s talk about addiction. Then let’s take this one step further because this is kind of a controversial subject. And some people are adamant that food addiction, especially sugar addiction is a real thing. And others say that it’s total bunk. So can you set the record straight for us around food addiction and sugar addiction?
[00:16:32] Kirsten: Yes. I mean, ultimately with where the research lies right now. Sugar addiction food addiction does not. It doesn’t add up in the research. Right? Um, when you think about it, I mean, some of the quote, unquote, best studies that, you know, the people that are convinced sugar addiction is real, are with like rats, who they deprived of sugar and then gave them a bunch of sugar.
[00:17:00] And then they went crazy on sugar and it’s like, oh my gosh, they’re acting, they’re picking sugar over cocaine or it right. Like, it’s like, they’re, it’s, they’re acting so chaotic around this. Of course the rats, or you are going to be insanely crazily driven towards sugar, which is a basic human need. I mean, again, like sugar is safety to your brain and central nervous system. It’s the main source of energy for your brain and central nervous system. So when you are deprived, it feels like life or death. It is survival and you’re going to be driven chaotically to it.
[00:17:35] So does it mirror and look like addiction from the outside? Sure. And certainly somebody that’s experiencing it and feeling like they’re addicted to sugar, it, it feels absolutely like that. But it’s not that. And it’s important to distinguish that because if it was sugar addiction, if food was addictive, then the solution would be abstinence. But in this scenario that the issue is deprivation and restriction and not getting enough or feeling like you’re not getting enough.
[00:18:06] And abstinence would just make that worse.
[00:18:09] Kim: And that’s what we see. Right. And, but people think it’s their fault. They think they’re addicted to sugar. They think they can’t handle it. And they’re so chaotic around it. So they restrict it, with greater and greater scrutiny, the more times that they feel like they failed.
[00:18:24] And then yeah, they, because they keep falling off the wagon, so to speak, they think it’s their fault and they need tighter control and tighter control, but it never works. Where in, in true like alcohol and drug addiction recovery, as far as I know, anyways, the longer you stay away from that substance, the easier it becomes to stay away from it.
[00:18:45] Kirsten: Right. Exactly. And that’s not the case here. I mean, it’s like you’re going to keep being, being driven back and I think it’s so difficult for folks because they say they start, you know, abstaining quote unquote and restricting sugar. They probably are going to feel a lot better compared to their like bingeing sugary things.
[00:19:03] And they’re like, okay, this is good. And to, to abstain and to restrict and like, and then I fall off the wagon and that’s because I am messed up and, you know, whatever. I need to go back to my restricting where I feel good. And they think that the only way to feel good is to be restricting it because all they know of not restricting it is chaos. But the alternative is. Feeling peaceful and neutral around sugar and allowing full permission and getting to the other side of the chaos. And then you’re going to feel good too. You’re just going to be, you know, incorporating it.
[00:19:36] Kim: Right. Right. Won’t, be so much like ping pong back and forth between restriction and bingeing eight.
[00:19:42] Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So can you give us some steps then for the person who wants to feel more peaceful around sugar and wants to be able to enjoy it without all the chaotic feelings and all the fear? How do they start?
[00:19:57] Kirsten: Yeah. So my first thought is I, my negative one thought is if you’re able to kind of, you know, work with an intuitive eating coach of some kind, I mean, that’s always going to be really helpful and supportive to kind of guide this.
[00:20:08] But, actual thing number one is eat enough consistently throughout the day. Yeah. The second piece I’m going to get to, of course, is going to be like, let’s incorporate these sugary things that you’ve been restricting because restriction is the problem. But if we’re not step one, eating enough consistently throughout the day, we’re creating a situation where our body is going to feel deprived, and that’s going to feed that chaotic feeling around sugar, even if you’re kind of allowing whatever you allow yourself to eat, whatever sugary things you want and kind of taking that restriction out of the question.
[00:20:45] Kim: Right. It’s like you said, at the beginning, if, if you’re feeling deprived overall, you’re going to go for the quickest source of energy. Right. Which is the easily digested carbohydrates or the candy or the sugar. Okay.
[00:20:55] Kirsten: Exactly. And I think that it’s important to know that, like, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not so simple, especially in the beginning as like eat when you’re hungry, because sometimes we’re really disconnected from those cues. Sometimes our bodies aren’t giving us those cues because we’ve been in a weird pattern of eating. So we wake up in the morning, we’re not hungry or just having our coffee and that kind of suppresses your appetite. You don’t realize it. So just know that like, even if the hunger is not present, we still need that consistent intake throughout the day.
[00:21:24] And that’s gonna be, like, step number one, to really build a foundation that will allow you to feel more neutral around sugary things. And then step number two would be, my recommendation would be pick one, you know, thing that you have a kind of forbidden fruit mentality around. Get, get as specific as you can, you know, very, berry sour patch kids or whatever.
[00:21:46] Um, and you know, work on abundance. I mean, again, the problem. And the thing that is leading to the chaos and the feeling of addictive addiction around sugar is the deprivation and the restriction. So we heal that with abundance, you know, it’s that scarcity that leads to those things. So we heal that with having an abundant amount all the time.
[00:22:08] Kim: So it’s in the house it’s readily available. You can grab it whenever you feel like it have as much as you want to satiate your craving.
[00:22:15] Kirsten: Yes. And I love telling clients like it, depending on where they’re at, but if they’re, if they’re onboard, Keep it on your desk, like keep it within visual sight. Like let’s not put it in the pantry behind the whatever. So you’re just in case. You know, we want to go into it with this, like the more, the better mindset. Even to the point where I talked to a lot of clients about like, Hey, let’s intentionally incorporate the sour patch kids into your morning snack along with whatever else you’re having. Or along with your lunch. Even if originally you wouldn’t have thought to, let’s just bring this food into like different scenarios. Outside of the scenarios of like the mid-afternoon time where you feel like you’re bingeing or the nighttime in front of Netflix, feeling like you’re bingeing. Let’s intentionally incorporate it in different scenarios to kind of really help take the power away.
[00:23:01] Kim: I really like that advice because then you can engage with the food in a really neutral and mindful way as opposed to when you’re feeling triggered.
[00:23:08] Kirsten: Exactly. Cause it’s like, they’ll say to me, they’re like, well, I don’t even really want it at 10:00 AM. Why am I going to have it with my morning snack when I’m not feeling the, you know, feeling compelled to do it.
[00:23:17] But it’s exactly that let’s, let’s have these other experiences with this food that don’t feel that, you know, don’t feel chaotic.
[00:23:24] Kim: Amazing. Okay. Well, this has been a really great conversation. I mean, I learned a lot too. I’m going to incorporate some of those tips myself, but thank you very much for clearing up all of that misconception around the big, hairy monster that people think that sugar is.
[00:23:42] Kirsten: Yes. I think this is such an important conversation it’s, you know yeah. On so many people’s minds. So I’m glad we were able to talk to.
[00:23:49] Kim: Yeah, for sure. So before we sign off for today, I want to ask you my signature question that I ask all my guests, which is what does joyful movement mean to you, Kirsten?
[00:23:58] Kirsten: Yes. I mean, when I think of joyful movement, I think of movement that I don’t even think of as intentionally like engaging in movement. I think of it as like playful. I grew up playing. Tennis competitively, but really like, it was just like a fun thing I really enjoyed. And it, you know, it was, it’s a game.
[00:24:15] Um, and actually just yesterday I played pickleball with a friend and I’m just like having a blast so that it’s so fun. So it’s like, I think of joyful movement is like stuff that I don’t even consider um, I’m definitely not thinking of it as quote, unquote exercise or like intentional movements. Um, but the other thing I think of is like movement that aligns with my values and like what I find to be supportive.
[00:24:35] So even if it’s not always like the most playful in a game, it’s something that really feels aligned with, you know, what I value and what I’m looking for.
[00:24:44] Kim: Oh, that’s great. Those are two really great perspectives, right? Like having fun and playing. And I mean, I’ve tried pickleball a couple of times and it is, it is a hoot.
[00:24:51] Kirsten: It is, it is so fun. Yes. And a little easier than running around a tennis court for me these days.
[00:24:58] Kim: So yeah, it’s a little smaller ground to cover, but then it’s also knowing that sometimes we just don’t have the ability or the time or for whatever reason to get out there and play. So we can like make choices that are in our best interest and like, You know, it doesn’t have to fit in the exercise box, but it’s still benefiting us. So
[00:25:17] Kirsten: yeah, definitely. It’s taken me a long time to get, you know, get to that place in that mindset with movement. So I’m really grateful.
[00:25:24] Kim: Ah, I love that. Well, before we sign off today, can you tell our listeners where they can connect with you? Because I know that they’re going to want to stay in touch.
[00:25:31] Kirsten: Yeah. So I’m on Instagram @theintuitive_rd. That is where I spend most of my time. I also have a podcast called intuitive bites podcast. And I have a free 45 minute video peace with food training, which is in the link in my bio on Instagram. So you can get that right to your inbox. If you go over and click that.
[00:25:53] Kim: Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that with our listeners.
[00:25:56] Kirsten: Of course.
[00:25:57] Kim: This has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on here today, Kirsten.
[00:26:00] Kirsten: Thank you Kim
